Dr. Sarah Lower, Associate Professor of Biology, Bucknell University ; Dr. Peter Andolfatto, Professor at Columbia University in the City of New York
The Deceptive Seduction of Femme Fatale Fireflies
In the buzzin’ firefly nightlife scene, neon lights glow bright and sparks fly. But, there’s murder on the dancefloor… The infamous ‘Femme Fatale’ firefly has mastered the ultimate bait-and-switch seduction strategy, and these sly flies (that are really beetles, actually) aren’t interested in a happily ever after, instead they’re looking for a ‘one-bite stand.’
Get consumed in this episode by one of nature’s flashiest insects. Join host, Dr. Kaylee Byers, as she chats with Dr. Sarah Lower about the enchanting world of glow beetles. And later, Dr. Peter Andolfatto reveals how genomics is uncovering the secrets behind how Femme Fatale fireflies have evolved to resort to such drastic measures. Plus, find out what studying firefly toxin DNA could mean for future medical breakthroughs.
Dr. Sarah Lower covers some firefly basics
Dr. Lower on the deceptive strategy of the Femme Fatale Fireflies
Dr. Andolfatto explains how fireflies have evolved difference resistance strategies to toxins
Dr. Lower on how to get involved in firefly conservation
00:00:04
Dr. Kaylee Byers: Who wants to get ready with me and go out? I’m dying to show you the hottest new nightclub in the always-bustling, and completely made-up, place called Firefly Falls.
00:00:16
Club Allure Bouncer: All right, everyone have your FLY-Ds handy. It’s adult fireflies only. Larvae and pupae, you’ll have to wait until your adult form. Yeah, nice try small fry.
00:00:25
Dr. Kaylee Byers: After years of waiting, these male fireflies have finally reached maturity. That might not seem like that long. But when you only live a couple of years, that’s a lifetime. And they’re ready to meet some females and get busy.
READ TRANSCRIPT00:00:42
Flicker: You nervous?
00:00:43
Flicker’s Friend: You kidding? This is what we’ve been waiting for our whole lives, man. I’m buzzing to get in there.
00:00:47
Flicker: Yeah, no, same, totally psyched.
00:00:51
Flicker’s Friend: Us firefly guys have needs.
00:00:53
Flicker: But then again, it’s so competitive in there. What if no fire gals notice me?
00:00:57
Flicker’s Friend: Come on, Flick, you’re a total catch. Plus, we’ve been practicing our flash dance forever. You’ve got nothing to worry about.
00:01:04
Club Allure Bouncer: Slow down there, fellas. You got your FLY-Ds? All right, head on in.
00:01:09
Club Allure DJ: All right y’all, welcome to the Allure Lounge, the hottest spot on the bioluminescent crescent. Let yourself be enchanted by the lights, but remember to keep your wits sharp. You never know what could be lurking in the dark. Be still my heart. Let’s dance.
00:01:25
Flicker: Wow, this place is lit!
00:01:27
Flicker’s Friend: Right? See, I told you. Nothing to worry about.
00:01:30
Flicker: Okay, so where should we go first? I see some fire gals over there. Or maybe we should let them come to us? Or maybe we could …
00:01:39
Flicker’s Friend: Well, hello there. You come here often?
00:01:44
Flicker: And he’s gone. All right. Remember what you practiced. Step flash. Step flash. Oh God, this is so embarrassing. Nobody’s coming over. Step, step flash, step flash. Whoa, she’s looking at me. Okay. Step, step, flash. Step, step flash. She’s doing it too. Yeah, girl, you’re speaking my language! Okay, I should go over there. And to seal the deal, the sparkler. Hey there.
00:02:18
Glowria: Wow, you are on fire, fly.
00:02:21
Flicker: Thanks. I’ve been told I have an exceptionally glowy butt.
00:02:25
Glowria: You’re funny. I’m Glowria.
00:02:27
Flicker: Hey, I’m Flicker.
00:02:29
Glowria: Well Flicker, I hope I’m not being too bold, but this place isn’t really my scene. And you seem like a fly guy.
00:02:37
Flicker: Actually, I’m a beetle.
00:02:39
Glowria: Well beetle, how about we beat it out of here? Maybe we can grab a bite somewhere.
00:02:44
Flicker: Lead the way. I got to say, I thought finding someone who picked up on my flash vibe would be so much harder. I mean, you just get me. I don’t want to sound too cheesy, but I feel like we have a real spark, Glowria. I mean, you’re too good to be true.
00:03:05
Glowria: I am?
00:03:07
Flicker: So where do you want to grab a bite?
00:03:09
Glowria: How about right here?
00:03:15
Dr. Kaylee Byers: Oh, no. Poor Flicker. But sadly, in the firefly game of love, one kiss and you could be a mate … or dinner. You are listening to Nice Genes!, the podcast that changes the channel to the telenovelas of the natural world. Brought to you by Genome British Columbia. I’m your director, Dr. Kaylee Byers. And I’ll be screening an after-hours presentation of Firefly Courtship.
00:03:53
Dr. Sarah Lower: We walked across this field and then over to the woods. And once you get into the woods, it’s pitch black. And so you have to wait for your eyes to get used to the dark. And then … Is that a firefly? Am I hallucinating? What is that? As your eyes get more accustomed to the dark, you-
00:04:14
Dr. Kaylee Byers: You might remember the first time you saw a firefly. In the peak of summer, the night sky lit up with wondrous specks of sparkling lights.
00:04:23
Dr. Sarah Lower: And as your eyes get more accustomed to the dark, I could see that I was just surrounded by hundreds and hundreds of these little floating lights. It was just this hauntingly beautiful sight.
00:04:35
Dr. Kaylee Byers: Nature is magical. And today we are waving our wands to reveal the mysterious, fascinating, and tantalizing lives of fireflies. Because amidst the razzle-dazzle, there’s more than what meets the eye. To illuminate this tale, we are bringing in one of the firefly’s biggest fans.
00:04:56
Dr. Sarah Lower: My name is Sarah Lower. I am an associate professor of biology at Bucknell University. I would say at a young age I was interested in fireflies. I would go visit my grandmother out at her cottage on Cape Cod. And that would be the first time I saw light-up fireflies. Because I grew up on the West Coast of North America, where you don’t often see flashing fireflies. When I got to grad school, I had the opportunity to do a firefly literature review. But I started reading about them. And this little insect that you think you know and you love and you’ve caught it; there is so much that is unknown about this insect. It’s like this little mystery you can hold in your hand.
00:05:37
Dr. Kaylee Byers: So what exactly is a firefly?
00:05:40
Dr. Sarah Lower: A firefly is an insect. Some people might call them fireflies, some people call them lightning bugs. But they’re actually not flies, and they’re not bugs. They’re not true bugs, either.
00:05:49
Dr. Kaylee Byers: I love that you make that distinction. I do that all the time with things that people call bugs.
00:05:54
Dr. Sarah Lower: Not a bug, not a fly. They are beetles.
00:05:57
Dr. Kaylee Byers: Cute little beetles. And how many species of these little beetles are there?
00:06:02
Dr. Sarah Lower: I believe they’re up over 2, 400 different species described from around the world. They’re on every continent except for Antarctica. We have confirmed sightings using pictures that folks have submitted of all the way up in Alaska, all the way down to Patagonia.
00:06:19
Dr. Kaylee Byers: Oh, cool. Okay. So they live all around the world. Do they live in any particular type of habitat?
00:06:25
Dr. Sarah Lower: We tend to think of fireflies being associated with more moist habitats. They dry out really, really easily. They’re soft-bodied beetles. They’re not hard. So I think of, say, mealworms or flower beetles.
00:06:40
Dr. Kaylee Byers: Yep.
00:06:40
Dr. Sarah Lower: They have very, very tough outer shells. Fireflies are much softer. They dry out more quickly. We do find them in more arid regions. We have populations in New Mexico and Texas. But they tend to be associated with rivers or places where you will see water.
00:06:56
Dr. Kaylee Byers: When we think of a firefly, we picture these twinkling little sky dancers that dot the night sky like nature’s disco ball. But that’s really just their grand finale. Fireflies live most of their lives backstage, rehearsing for the big show. They start by cozying up in their eggs for about four weeks before they even hatch. Then for the next two years, firefly larvae hang out underground munching on snacks like snails, slugs, and worms as they get ready for their spectacular glowing debut.
00:07:33
Dr. Sarah Lower: So after that one to two years as a larva where they’re just eating, eating, eating, they will then pupate. The pupal stage can last from two to four weeks, depending on temperature. And then they emerge as adults. Then as adults, we think of most North American species lasting anywhere from two to four weeks in the wild.
00:07:51
Dr. Kaylee Byers: Wow. Okay. So what are they getting up to as adults? I imagine with so little time, the race is going to be on to procreate.
00:07:59
Dr. Sarah Lower: Yes. As you might expect, if you only have two weeks to mate; and some species, they’re only active for a very short period of time, both seasonally but also during the night. So the flashing that you see, those are mating signals that they are using to find each other. Most of the flashes that we see when we’re out on our porch, or in the field looking for fireflies, those are patrol flashes: where males are emitting a species-specific pattern as they search for females. Then the females will be down in the vegetation. And when they see a flash pattern that they like, they’ll reply with a flash of their own. And they’ll go back and forth in what we call a flash dialogue, until the male lands close to the female and scrambles to find her.
00:08:44
Dr. Kaylee Byers: I love that, “flash dialogue.” That’s so cute. Well, what causes their little butts to light up? How do they get that flashing going?
00:08:50
Dr. Sarah Lower: Fireflies have a special organ on their abdomen called the lantern or light organ. And inside there are specialized tissues that host specialized cells with special organelles that contain the ingredients of the light reaction. So the main ingredients you need for this recipe are an enzyme called luciferase that the firefly makes. There’s a gene in the genome codes for protein that makes this luciferase enzyme. You need substrate luciferin. We do not know how this is made by fireflies, but it’s in there. And then you need some magnesium, a little bit of ATP, and oxygen. You mix those all together, and you get light.
00:09:34
Dr. Kaylee Byers: It sounds like witchcraft. Just like, “Take this luciferase, you add a little ATP, a little energy in there.” It’s just like a little cauldron in their butts. I really like it. As larvae, all fireflies conjure up this bioluminescent potion. Toss in D-luciferin, luciferase, oxygen, ATP, and magnesium, and a boom! Total glow up. What’s kind of cool, though, is that the color of their light changes from species to species. European glowworms, for example, shine green. North American Big Dipper fireflies glow more yellow. And Japanese luciola parvula fireflies light up orange.
It’s nature’s way of casting different spells to attract mates or ward off predators. Myself, I’m really more of a marigold, more of a spring tone. So they use these flashes for mating. And then what does that mating process look like? You said the female will typically flash the male, and then the male will come hang out for sexy times, I guess. Is there more to the process?
00:10:40
Dr. Sarah Lower: The male typically will land not right next to the female. I think there is some question as to how good their vision is, but it also might be some sort of defensive mechanism. We’ll get into that. So he’ll land near the female. There might be a couple more flash dialogue rounds, and he’ll run up the piece of grass to find her.
00:10:59
Dr. Kaylee Byers: And even in the world of insect courtship, one reliable way to woo a mate is through a gift: a nuptial gift, that is.
00:11:07
Dr. Sarah Lower: A nuptial gift in fireflies is a package of not just genetic material that gets transferred from the male to the female during mating; it also contains nutrients.
00:11:18
Dr. Kaylee Byers: Just to clarify: when we’re talking “genetic material,” we’re talking sperm.
00:11:23
Dr. Sarah Lower: And so if we’re thinking of most fireflies not eating during this adult period, this is a really valuable resource for a female who wants to lay the biggest, best, most provisioned eggs, healthiest eggs. So males will provide the female with a nuptial gift in many species.
00:11:41
Dr. Kaylee Byers: Oh, so romantic. I’m a sucker for a good meet cute. But while love is in the air, there could be something sinister lurking in the shadows.
00:11:53
Dr. Sarah Lower: One of the reasons why they might not want to land right next to the female is there is a possibility that that female is not actually a female of their own species, but in fact a female of a different species. And she is not interested in sexy time. She is interested in dinner.
00:12:12
Dr. Kaylee Byers: These are often called femme fatale fireflies. Can you tell us a little bit about what is going on here, this deceptive strategy that they have?
00:12:21
Dr. Sarah Lower: So these fireflies that are eating other fireflies in the adult stage, these are in the genus phyturus. And we generally think about fireflies having a single species-specific mating signal that they will emit and females choose. They’re using it to find each other during mating. And phyturus have that as well.
They have a species-specific mating pattern. Females will reply to their species-specific mating pattern preferentially once they have emerged from their pupa. Then after they’ve mated, they sort of go quiet for a little while. And after that they emerge as these femme fatales, where they actually preferentially respond to the mating signal of a different species. This would be another species out in the environment, a prey species. And so they’re actually mimicking the female reply to the males, to lure these prey males in and eat them.
Now, not only can they possibly be getting nutrients from eating this prey, they also might be getting these toxins from fireflies. Fireflies are toxic. I do not recommend eating one, or eating lots of them, but they are toxic. Phyturus fireflies have actually lost the ability to produce the toxin on their own. And we think that they are eating these prey species to be able to get that toxin sequestered into their eggs. They might be referred to as femme fatales, but they’re actually just really awesome moms that are looking out for their offspring.
00:13:51
Dr. Kaylee Byers: So the phyturus can mimic the flashing pattern of another species to lure the male of that species over, nom-nom-nom them, get the nutrients of eating that male, and they also potentially get this toxin. How are they able to mimic the pattern of another species? Can they just mimic one other species, or can they mimic multiple species?
00:14:14
Dr. Sarah Lower: These are all great questions. And are they learning it by seeing what’s in the environment, doing some of their own trials with replying with different flashes of different lengths? Don’t know.
00:14:26
Dr. Kaylee Byers: No.
00:14:26
Dr. Sarah Lower: Is it innate, and then they just sort of come out knowing these extra flash patterns? We don’t know. We don’t have a genome for phyturus yet. Hopefully that will be forthcoming. They have a really big genome, so some of them have genomes over two gigs.
00:14:41
Dr. Kaylee Byers: Oh wow, okay.
00:14:41
Dr. Sarah Lower: So not quite as big as a human genome, but two-thirds.
00:14:45
Dr. Peter Andolfatto: In more recent years there’s been some work comparing genome sequences of different species. So we’re just beginning to understand how different firefly groups are related to each other, and how the specialized adaptations of each group have evolved.
00:14:59
Dr. Kaylee Byers: Coming up: femme fatale, tell us your secrets and why you do what you do. You are listening to Nice Genes!, a podcast all about the fascinating world of genomics and the evolving science behind it, brought to you by Genome British Columbia.
I’m your host, Dr. Kaylee Byers. And we want to get more people listening to the genomic stories that are shaping our world. So if you like Nice Genes!, hit Follow on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your shows. If this episode has you buzzing, share the show with a friend, or foe, and help grow the irresistible glow of science.
00:15:41
Doctor: Glowria, come on in.
00:15:43
Glowria: Hey Doc.
00:15:45
Doctor: So what brings you in today? Your light seems a little dim.
00:15:49
Glowria: You know, same old, same old.
00:15:52
Doctor: You look tired. You were at the Allure Lounge again, weren’t you?
00:15:56
Glowria: Yep. And I guess you know how that ended.
00:15:59
Doctor: Another dinner date?
00:16:01
Glowria: Yeah. Why do I keep doing this, Doc? I just can’t help it. It feels like I’m caught in a cycle, and all these one-bite stands are just starting to feel very toxic.
00:16:12
Doctor: I can see how that would be hard. Well, first step when we find ourselves in a negative cycle or toxic pattern is to understand the reason behind it. Let’s try an exercise. Picture yourself back at the club. You see a male firefly.
00:16:28
Flicker: Hey there.
00:16:29
Doctor: And you start to want dinner. Why do you think you’re drawn to this pattern of toxicity?
00:16:34
Glowria: I don’t know. It honestly just feels so natural. I can’t help it. God, I’m terrible, aren’t I?
00:16:42
Doctor: Easy there, little lantern. Before you go any further with that negative self-talk, there’s more to this. You can’t blame yourself for who you are, Glow. It’s in your DNA; you’ve evolved this way.
00:16:54
Glowria: So what? You’re saying I have evolutionary baggage?
00:16:58
Doctor: Trust me, there’s always a reason we act the way we do: something deep in your past, something you may not even know about.
00:17:12
Dr. Kaylee Byers: The deceptive seduction of femme fatale fireflies isn’t exactly a new discovery. They’ve sparked the curiosity of scientists for decades. But even for such a charismatic critter, so many questions still remain unanswered. Like Dr. Sarah Lower said, munching down on fireflies is pretty unpleasant because they have a toxin called lucibuf … lucibuf … They have a toxin called lucibuf … lucibuf … luci … I don’t know what’s happening. I don’t know why I can’t do it. But folks, can we just insert this in post? Okay, thanks. Like Dr. Sarah Lower said, munching down on fireflies is pretty unpleasant because they have a toxin called-
00:17:59
Dr. Sarah Lower: Lucibufagins.
00:17:59
Dr. Kaylee Byers: And this toxin can serve as a defense that keeps birds and spiders from chowing down on our firefly friends. But not all fireflies have this toxin, and this includes the femme fatale. Given the importance of this protective mechanism, it raises an intriguing question: “Why have they evolved to stop producing it?” And could this lack of toxins be the reason this species is making a meal out of males of other species?
00:18:26
Dr. Peter Andolfatto: We currently don’t know if at the origin of fireflies, if all fireflies could do this trick of making their own toxins; or whether only the fireflies that currently make toxins learned how to do it, and the predatory species did not.
00:18:41
Dr. Kaylee Byers: Dr. Peter Andolfatto and his team are using genomics to crack open the case of these evolutionary wonders.
00:18:48
Dr. Peter Andolfatto: One possibility is that back in the past, all fireflies were making toxins. And then the predatory species lost this ability. Why did they lose the ability to manufacture toxins themselves? I suppose one could guess that that is a costly process, so it might just be somewhat easier to go out and hunt down other fireflies and steal their toxins than to make your own. But we really don’t know about the order and timing of events. And that’s part of the attraction of trying to get in there and try to solve these questions used in genetics.
00:19:21
Dr. Kaylee Byers: The jury’s still out on when, where, and why these fireflies lost the ability to make toxins themselves. But perhaps the more alluring question in this whole story is, “How?”
00:19:35
Dr. Peter Andolfatto: Essentially you have these two fireflies with very different lifestyles. One making the toxins themselves and storing them. The other one has evolved this quite complicated predatory behavior, and absorbs toxins from its diet. And so a basic question is, “How do they accomplish that?” Because fireflies are all closely related to each other, one might assume that there’s just one way for fireflies to be resistant to the toxin. And that’s a mechanism that’s shared among all fireflies.
On the other hand, considering how different they deal with the toxins, you might imagine that they have evolved resistance in very distinct ways. And so the key question is, “How do these fireflies accomplish the feat of not being poisoned themselves?” And one way to do that is to genetically modify the target of the toxins, which is a specific protein called sodium potassium ATPase. So what we found is that at the origin of fireflies, it looks like they took some steps towards resistance in common. And that’s hinting at the fact that even the predatory species, though it can’t currently make its own toxins, at one time could.
However, what we also find is that after those initial steps in common, when these two firefly groups split and went their separate ways, the predatory species did something quite different from the prey species. And that is, that it made duplicate copies of the target gene.
00:21:02
Dr. Kaylee Byers: The gene Peter’s referring to is ATP alpha, the toxin’s main target. And just by making a few copies of this gene, fireflies can unlock some pretty exciting evolutionary possibilities.
00:21:16
Dr. Peter Andolfatto: That’s significant. Because when you make duplicate copies of the target gene, it gives you kind of a superpower to explore evolutionary solutions. So what we found was that with multiple copies of these genes, you could have one version of the target protein that’s highly resistant to the toxins. And what we found is that highly resistant version is specifically expressed in the gut, where the predatory species first encounters the toxin from its firefly meal.
00:21:46
Dr. Kaylee Byers: So to sum up: the toxins manufactured in prey firefly species target a protein called sodium potassium ATPase. That’s essential for cell function in all animals. And Peter’s lab found that by duplicating the gene that encodes ATPase, femme fatale fireflies are protected from the toxins, and actually use them to their advantage. I’ve said it once, I’ll say it again. Nature is incredible. And this discovery isn’t just flashinating in the firefly world. There are benefits to humans too.
00:22:23
Dr. Peter Andolfatto: Interestingly, these toxins have been used by us humans for hundreds, possibly even thousands of years to treat common conditions like cardiac arrhythmias and congestive heart failure. However, when you use these toxins to treat those conditions, they’re associated with lots of bad side effects, because of their effects, for example, on neurons. You want to treat a problem with the heart, but you end up having neurological side effects. And so there’s been quite a bit of interest in trying to understand this interaction between the toxin and the protein, in the context of this medical application of the toxin.
00:23:00
Dr. Kaylee Byers: And that’s not all these toxins are potentially useful for. We’ve talked a lot about firefly sexy time, but could this protein also hold the keys to the exact opposite outcome: blocking reproduction?
00:23:14
Dr. Peter Andolfatto: This protein is like a power station that drives sperm motility in mammals, including humans. So interestingly, certain mutations that cause males to be sterile will be a mutation in this gene. But it’s also the case that if you could find a way to specifically target the version of the protein that’s expressed in sperm, that would be an interesting medical application to develop a human contraceptive, of which there are very few male contraceptives available.
00:23:43
Dr. Kaylee Byers: I bet you didn’t have male birth control on your bingo card for this episode.
00:23:49
Bingo Player: Bingo!
00:23:50
Dr. Kaylee Byers: We are still a ways away from these advancements. But the key is, fireflies are more than just what light up Shrek’s swamp.
00:23:58
Shrek: It ain’t nothing but a bunch of little dots. You know, Donkey, sometimes things are more than they appear.
00:24:04
Dr. Kaylee Byers: We can learn a lot from them.
00:24:06
Dr. Peter Andolfatto: We love fireflies, but fireflies are just one example of the adaptation process that’s going on globally. Apart from the direct medical implications of the work that we’ve been doing, there’s a lot of benefit to just simply describing and understanding biodiversity in terms of fireflies and other insects.
I think more generally, though, understanding the firefly adaptation story helps us understand more about the adaptation process, and the extent to which adaptation is a predictable thing: the extent to which adaptation might be limited by certain factors. For example, is there a speed limit to how fast adaptation can happen? Or are there creative limits to adaptation? Essentially, could you evolve anything? Or are there constraints on what can and cannot evolve?
00:24:55
Dr. Kaylee Byers: As we’ve mentioned, there are still so many unanswered questions in the firefly genetics realm. So what does the future have in store? As someone working in this space, what are you most excited to learn about in, say, the next five to 10 years? Where are you hoping we’re going to have some big discoveries?
00:25:13
Dr. Sarah Lower: I’m excited about genomic data playing more of a role in firefly research. There’s more and more people using genomic tools. I think it can help with things like conservation, or looking at evolution of these different species, and looking at population genetics and conservation. I think it’s a really awesome time to be in a non-model system, and be able to apply genomic tools to answer lots of different questions.
00:25:41
Dr. Kaylee Byers: When it comes to conservation, our sultry sirens known as the femme fatales aren’t currently listed as endangered. However, 1 in 3 North American firefly species might be at risk of extinction. And a big reason for that is climate change and habitat loss. So is there a way we can lend a hand and be a firefly friend?
00:26:02
Dr. Sarah Lower: The past five to 10 years have been really illuminating on some things that folks can do. And so if folks really want to help, they can help us get data. Firefly Atlas is a program where you, anybody listening to this, people who know the people listening to this, can all join in. You go out in your yard. Or maybe you’re out camping, or you’re on a trip and you see a firefly. Then you go online and you enter in some data. That’s going to help us look at where and when different fireflies emerge and occur, and can help us gather a lot, a lot of data that then we can use to investigate what are these threats and what can we do.
There’s a lot of good insect-friendly practices that folks can do in their own yard. You can do things like turn your lights off in the summer, if you have external lights, so as not to disturb meeting. Or you can plant bushes in places where there might be light pollution to just create a nice little dark area that fireflies can be in. Things like mowing your grass high, or leaving part of your grass to just go. No-mow-May can be no-mow-all-summer.
00:27:14
Dr. Kaylee Byers: So get out there and be a firefly ally. Because hey, even though some of them may be plotting their next murderous meetup, we love them anyway.
00:27:26
Dr. Sarah Lower: The thing that I really, really love about fireflies is folks call them a gateway insect. People that don’t normally like insects can really connect with fireflies. They are inspirational for conservation efforts, and for inspiring people to learn about science and learn about genomics and genetics and all of those other things. And so I think their power is also in the wonder that they elicit.
00:27:52
Dr. Kaylee Byers: Illuminate.
00:27:53
Dr. Sarah Lower: There we go. (laughing)
00:27:55
Dr. Kaylee Byers: I was trying to not go there, but-
00:27:57
Dr. Sarah Lower: No, I-
00:27:57
Dr. Kaylee Byers: … we can do firefly puns all day. Our guest for today were Bucknell University Professor of Biology, Dr. Sarah Lower, and Dr. Peter Andolfatto from the Department of Biological Sciences at Columbia. You’ve been listening to Nice Genes!, a podcast brought to you by Genome British Columbia.
If you like this episode, go check out some of our previous ones wherever you listen from. Share us with your friends, and leave us a review. You can also DM the show on social media by going to @GenomeBC. And we also have learn-along activity sheets added to the show description of each episode. Join us next time as we shine a light on the complexities of neurodivergence and genomics; and uncover how factors like sex and gender could be keeping some diagnoses in the dark.
00:28:51
Dr. Hannah Louise Belcher: It was only when I was in therapy the therapist said, “I think you might be autistic.” And I took it as my special interest to discover absolutely everything there was on female autism.
00:29:01
Dr. Kaylee Byers: Thanks for listening. Flash forward two weeks from now, and we’ll have another a delightful episode for you.
00:29:09
Dr. Sarah Lower: Lucibufagins. You did it!